So we caught up with Jason Mayden and we had a conversation about product design and talked about the history of design and how it relates to the African continent. We also talked about some of the inspiration that goes on behind the process of designing a new product. A brief background – Jason Mayden was once the senior design innovation lead for Jordan Brand at Nike where he worked for the company for more than thirteen years. He grew up on the South Side of Chicago so he was a big Jordan fan and he aspired to design for Jordan, which he did. He also designed sneakers for Chris Paul Derek Jeter and of course, the Royal Airness himself, MJ. Before he left Nike, he was the senior global director of innovation for digital sports – the team that designed the Nike fuel band. We had this conversation at Jason’s departure ceremony as a resident fellow at Stanford’s Design school. So you could probably hear celebrations still going on in the background. It was also during the last game of the NBA playoffs, when Golden State Warriors won the championship, so pardon the background noise – we are sure you will enjoy the conversation.
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“We have to almost dream beyond the confines of the laws and move towards a completely ridiculously audacious goal of having Africa as the strongest continent on the planet”
[kpakpakpa.com] Where did your interest in design come from and how did you foster the growth as a child?
[JM] So my interest in design came from necessity. A lot of products that I loved and admired, I couldn’t afford. So rather than become discouraged, I often will draw them and recreate them on pieces of paper. So if you ask me if I had the latest jacket, the latest shoe or the latest toy, it wasn’t a lie when I said yes because I had a sketch of it. From sketching it, I realized that there was somebody who had a job to make this thing and I didn’t know what the title or the actual role was but I knew that I could potentially become that person.
“A lot of products that I loved and admired, I couldn’t afford. So rather than become discouraged, I often will draw them and recreate them on pieces of paper. So if you ask me if I had the latest jacket, the latest shoe or the latest toy, it wasn’t a lie when I said yes because I had a sketch of it”
What I did to foster my interest was that I went to as many trade shows and art museums as possible because I figured design is a form of art and maybe I could get some information from these environments. What ended up happening was I discovered engineering and I thought that these people make products which is different from designing a product so I went down a path to pursue engineering until my track & field coach put an article in front of me that explained the discipline of industrial design through the lens of a concept car. And once I realized that a person had to understand science, engineering, design and aesthetics when you became a industrial designer. I pursued that degree because it brought together all the things that I loved about the products and the processes that I had discovered through my own independent research.
“So I think the difference in people who are designers, artist or musician is that we never let the world corrupt our imagination – we continue to stay childlike and see the world for what it could be rather than what it is”
[kpakpakpa.com] So I mean a lot of people see this kind of stuff like as a natural born talent, some people say it’s a skill that you have to work on, what’s your opinion on this?
[JM] I think it’s a combination of both. I think the talent that you are born with is less about the physical act of drawing and more about the mindset of imagination. So everyone is born with imagination but it’s the people who continue to ask why and ask questions and challenge convention that continue to evolve and hone that natural sense of no boundaries in imagination. So I think the difference in people who are designers, artist or musician is that we never let the world corrupt our imagination – we continue to stay childlike and see the world for what it could be rather than what it is. I do think anybody can learn and you start by learning how to ask proper questions because when you ask proper questions you may get new information that changes the way you think and if you change the way you think then you can change the way you dream, when you change the way you dream and you start to change the world that you live in.
“…but the smartest man in the room is also the person that admits that they don’t know anything. So I just always put myself in a position of not knowing, ask a ton of questions, find people that I look up to that are doing interesting things and try to learn from them”
So it’s really about asking better questions. So I think people as they go about their lives and their careers, they’re not told enough that it’s OK to ask questions because the older you get the more you feel you should have answers but the smartest man in the room is also the person that admits that they don’t know anything. So I just always put myself in a position of not knowing, ask a ton of questions, find people that I look up to that are doing interesting things and try to learn from them. Even if I never pursue their discipline, I try to remain curious and hungry, knowing there’s more out there in this world that I need to know and that I need to take in and put into my process.
[kpakpakpa.com] What is your take on African design and how it’s influenced the world that we live in today?
[JM] Absolutely. First I think I’ll rephrase it – “Africa is Design”, there’s no such thing as African design. Africa is design, because it’s the birthplace of civilization, it’s the birthplace of intentionality, it’s the birthplace of dreams and aspirations. I mean the first curious man who left Ethiopia, which is where in the continent of Pangea, in historical terms, the hub of civilization was. That’s where we all started and it took that one person from that region to be curious enough to venture out north south east west to see what else was out there. So I think Africa is design because Africa is curiosity. Great thinkers, leaders and explorers came from there and they brought knowledge and wisdom to other continents and countries. I think when you look at modern products, processes and philosophy – it is so heavily influenced by the continent that it’s indistinguishable when you really understand the origin of stuff. I look at the concept of a chair – that started in Africa; look at the concept of bridges and structures in government – those designs were created in Africa. But when people talk about it they bifurcate Egypt from the continent and they say Egypt is one thing, the continent of Africa is something else. They also separate the contribution of the Nubians and the Moors. But what people don’t realize is that the Nubians and Moors are African, and those people are the ones who brought alchemy, science and structure to Europe and brought them out of the dark ages which then led to the Renaissance, the awakening. They were awoken because they were clued in and brought into African education and from that, the world had people like Leonardo da Vinci, Beethoven and Mozart who created these master works that we now put in museums and worship. They were all inspired and influenced and taught through African philosophy. So there’s not one artistic or design contribution that can separate itself from being inspired by the confident.
“Africa is Design, because it’s the birthplace of civilization, it’s the birthplace of intentionality, it’s the birthplace of dreams and aspirations.”
[kpakpakpa.com] Can you think of a mainstream product that has been an influenced by design that spurts from the African continent?
[JM] Absolutely, the one that I always use and that comes to mind is the iPod – the original iPod. So you talk about Jony Ive and he was a very great curator – I think the best designers are the best curators and historians. What he did is that he was influenced by design from Dieter Rams, who was the famous German designer who led design for Braun – a German company.
“But the reality of it is nothing’s new under the sun and everything is borrowed from something and most times is drawn from the origin and the origin are most often in Africa, because it is the origin of humanity so therefore it is the origin of thought and intentionality”
From my own research and understanding that design was heavily influenced by a sundial, which was an Egyptian way to know what time it was to harvest crops. So understanding that a sundial potentially influenced Dieter Rams, who potentially influenced Jony Ive to create the iPod. It’s so interesting to me because people don’t talk about where Dieter got his influence from or his principles of creation but they talk about the connection between Dieter and Jony. So they almost refuse or strategically omit the contributions and influences from the continent because it’s easier to paint the narrative that we inspire ourselves meaning modern society. But the reality of it is nothing’s new under the sun and everything is borrowed from something and most times is drawn from the origin and the origin are most often in Africa, because it is the origin of humanity so therefore it is the origin of thought and intentionality. You know, so everything and all roads lead back to the continent.
[kpakpakpa.com] So I mean being in the U.S, you notice and you can tell that the narrative of the African continent is very biased and you don’t necessarily see African products around. Do you think there’s a market here and in places around the world for African products designed by Africans back home?
[JM] Absolutely I think when you look at African products, they’re everywhere but they have been considered African – The drum is everywhere, the guitars is everywhere, braids are everywhere, the colors that we use in our fabrics are everywhere – these are all African products that have been stripped of their origin. So it isn’t a matter of creating new products for Africans to sell around the world, it’s really about educating people on the products that they use that are of African descent. Just as much as blacks in America have to understand our connection and origin of being of African descent and what that means, so do the organizations and industries that have borrowed and stolen from the African culture that reap the benefit of it. Some of the gorges that people eat or use for instruments and some of the weaving technology for some of the garments we wear in high fashion. We say “this is great, Alexander Wang did this crazy woven sweater” then you realize that that woven pattern came from the same people that created Adinkra symbols, who put those symbols on ceremonial clothes to tell their stories. So to me, the greater opportunity is just telling people about all the stuff in their environment that is of African descent and then moving the needle towards creating a new African icons that become the future of the continent.
“…it isn’t a matter of creating new products for Africans to sell around the world, it’s really about educating people on the products that they use that are of African descent”
Because I think there’s a great opportunity in making furniture because there’s a history of woodworking and craftsmanship. There’s a great opportunity in infrastructure meaning architecture. I think African sensibilities of community and having the central point being anchored on the family is hugely important. I think that’s a great area of growth for Africa or just for the world in general. I think the food system can be completely redesigned by people who were brought up in Africa because they understand food in a very different way. They understand how to be resourceful in a very different way. The way we deliver products – operations can be redesigned, retail can be redesigned because it amazes me how no matter where you travel throughout the continent or throughout the globe, you can always find a bottle of coca-cola. How did these people get coca-cola to some remote village. So African’s sense of supply chain is amazing because they do things in a way that it’s efficient but it may not be as documented, it may not be as captured in a formal structure but the intention is so pure that I think it can be scaled around the world.
[kpakpakpa.com] Based on what you are saying, if you think of concrete steps on how to make products that come from the African continent more globally respected, would you say it is necessary for history to be told properly. So that people know where designs that are commonplace originally came from. Would you say that is the first step?
[JM] Absolutely, think about when you buy a product from Italy, you don’t think about the product and its material, you think about the fact that it came from Italy. Italy as a country is regarded as a country that if focused on craftsmanship, elegance and tailoring. So the brand of Italy makes you believe the product follows the ideal of that brand. When you think about the brand of the continent of Africa – for one, people talk about Africa like it’s a country rather than a series of countries, so that’s a problem with the brand. Two, people don’t understand the differences within just one region let alone all the regions. So there’s a million different languages that could be spoken within that one hundred mile radius at any given moment. So to tell a narrative about what it means to be African in terms of being creative and being a designer, first means figuring out what regions have what brands. So Nigeria may be known (and i’m jus making this up here) for their pigments – this is a region of color, paint and pigmentation. Then Kenya could be know for it’s weaving technology. Having each country be known and famous for something, that helps to tease the narrative. Because when you look at Africa as a map – the possibility that each country has something that was broken down into a skill set that, for instance, only in Nigerian can you get this. First and only should be the mindset – this country is the first and only to do x. Italy was the first and only to export tailoring, even though England have better tailors on Savile Row, Italy owns the mindset behind bespoke suits and tailoring a finished product. There are other countries that do about it better but Italy just simply owns that narrative. Germany – German engineering, when you meet a German engineer, automatically he or she is given the benefit of the doubt – that’s their brand “German engineering”. Now, granted India may have way more engineers that are better or more qualified but Germany has a brand on engineering. So I think its figuring out what the brand narrative is for that country or that region then exporting that to the world through the product that support that narrative.
[kpakpakpa.com] So bringing it back to you, as a designer, where do you get your inspiration from?
[JM] That’s a good question – History books. I read a lot of history books and a lot of comic books. The reason why I read history and comics at the same time is that history is a person’s perspective on what happened while comic books is the person’s perspective on what could happen and I love that balance between the two. It’s like blending reality with distorted reality to create something new. Because in the middle is where innovation happens – where your idea is crazy enough to make people uncomfortable but it’s grounded in something real that makes people still want to understand. So I use analogies a lot.
“I read a lot of history books and a lot of comic books”
I always say this product is the X of this or this the new version of that . Consumers don’t want products that are so advanced that they can’t comprehend its usage and its utility. They want something that still makes them comfortable and have a sense of ownership and empowerment where they can control it. So I think for me understanding history and the behaviors of people and how they created new movements in their era. This helps me to frame my idea because I can see the future with a comic book, know the past and I can create for the now – so I try to blend both to create for the now.
[kpakpakpa.com] OK and do you do that actively, do read a history book for an hour and then read a comic book for another hour or does it just happen?
[JM] It just happens, its woven into my day. I’m always constantly absorbing new information through out the day. I try to pick up new magazines, take a new route to work, mix and match clothes I normally wouldn’t wear. I try every single day to break my routine so that I’ll have a chance to be inspired in a new way. I think routine is the death of creativity, that’s why I try to not have one. Because if I don’t have one then I’m always opening myself to new experiences.
[kpakpakpa.com] So you’ve designed for Nike and now the MarkOne vessel. You have designed a bunch of products, what products are you most proud of? It could be the final product that your are proud of, or the process, or the spark of inspiration?
[JM] First one is the Jordan brand, I will look at the whole brand as a product. I’m really really thankful to have the opportunity to work with Mr. Jordan and to take his vision and his excellence and put it into a product and then turn that product into a brand. Second will be something I worked on with predictive analytics to modernize the ways that we sign sport marketing athletes. Modernize the way we create products and services using data. And the third is, probably what I’m working on now with the nonprofit “The Tribe” which is focusing on teasing out the reasons why our young men of color in America – blacks and latinos – are having challenges in society. So my definition of products are very different, it isn’t the physical product, a lot of times its the big idea and the structure that I try to design for.
[kpakpakpa.com] So you’re more interested in the general as opposed to one physical product?
[JM] Yeah. The system.
[kpakpakpa.com] So speaking of the Jordan Brand, a lot of us are Jordan fans, you most have been a huge Jordan fan growing up in Chicago. If there was one thing that you can say you learned from M.J., what is it be?
“That all started with being critical of myself and what i’m not good at and being humble enough to raise my hand to say “hey I need assistance with this” because that’s how you grow by raising your hand and asking for assistance”
[JM] That’s a good question. The one thing he would always tell me is to turn my weaknesses into my strength. M.J. was very good about self assessment and knowing where he was weak and he will find people that were great at things that he wasn’t so great at, and he will learn from them. So I learned from working with him how to ask for help – honestly & earnestly ask for help and identify people that are better than me at stuff and learn for those people. That all started with being critical of myself and what i’m not good at and being humble enough to raise my hand to say “hey I need assistance with this” because that’s how you grow by raising your hand and asking for assistance.
[kpakpakpa.com] You’ve used this phrase before “creative minister” in a sense of trying to help people be more creative and passing that on. How important is creativity to you and to how important is it to human beings in general?
[JM] It’s so important and I look at creativity through the lens of my faith. I consider my self a follower of Christ and the first thing that God did is he created us. It didn’t say that God bought us or purchased us or made us. It said that he created us in his image and the act of creation is so important because it is such a delicate balance between power and servitude. I have the power to make anything that comes into my mind but that power if unchecked and not used correctly could really damage a lot of people. So I think about the gift that I have been given of being able to imagine stuff and bring it to life as being a very special and delicate gift that I need to make sure I use correctly to help people move the ball forward in their lives and use it to serve others. So I think when people use creativity to separate themselves or feel special or feel like they’re better than someone because they can draw, they can make stuff, they can make music – that’s not what it’s intended to do. Creativity is intended to serve humanity to make people’s lives a little bit better. I just think that you have to create responsibly. There needs to be some checks and balances to what we make because there are a lot of products out there that are hurtful or harmful and we make them simply because we can not because we should.
“Creativity is intended to serve humanity to make people’s lives a little bit better”
I really think about when I’m creating – is this honoring God, is this something that is truly designed to be used to help people live a better life. That’s essentially what he did when he gave us the earth. He gave us all the food we can eat, all animals that we can use for harvesting, clean air, clean water, he designed a perfect product for the perfect consumer. And then we’ve damaged that by trying to outdo him, and there’s no there’s no way we can outdo the Grand Designer. So we might as well just focus on leveraging his principles of creation which was simplicity, scalability, transferability and consistency. If God had a design language it would be those principles. None of what he did was based on aesthetics – he never said I want things to look fast and quick. Everything was utilitarian, everything was purposeful, everything is exactly the way he wanted it to be – it was intentional. Now, I think to me as creative people we have to create with intention or purpose not just with material and aesthetics, because it just floods the world with a whole bunch of stuff that isn’t really helpful.
[kpakpakpa.com] So you think practicality trumps aesthetics?
[JM] A thousand percent. Because beauty is function. If you think about your hand, there’s nothing beautiful about your hand – it’s how it works. It’s the fact that it can be a shovel, a hook, a hammer or a massager – your hand has so many different utilities that make it beautiful.
“Beauty is function”
It has so many different mechanical parts that move that make the actual look of the hand functional. It’s just crazy, I mean function is beauty because when it works well you can just appreciate it but when stuff is like really really beautiful and has no function, it just frustrates you.
[kpakpakpa.com] If you were to encourage the youth in Nigeria, Ghana or any other African country and you were to send them a message about enabling and nurturing creativity and innovation, what will you tell them? What routines should they adopt to keep growing?
“I will the African youth all over the world how important they are and how much we need them. We need them to be excellent…”
[JM] I will say first to the youth of Nigeria and just the African continent or the African diaspora, all over the world. I will tell them how important they are and how much we need them. We need them to be excellent because every time in the history of the world – and this is irrefutable – every time in the history of the world that someone of African descent has stepped into their greatness, society has improved and human race has moved forward. The greatest innovations come from people who understand the world on a different level and most of those people have African blood running through their veins. So first of all you are needed – you are desperately need.
Second, I will say make sure that you uplift each other and stay unified. Don’t view each other as separate or different, view each other as African.
“…uplift each other and stay unified”
Get to know not only the Africans that live in your region and in your continent but also the Africans that have been displaced around the globe because we need to be accepted. You know people like myself as African Americans, we want to be able to bring our resources and talents home, we want to come back to the continent and help but we don’t know where to start, how to start, or who to reach out to because we don’t feel accepted. So get to know us, get to know your brothers and sisters who have been displaced around the world because we need to build our village and our family once again. And third, understand that this isn’t something that is strictly on you – this is a generational goal. You need to be able to start something now, leave it behind for the next generation and then they leave it behind for the next generation.
“Get to know not only the Africans that live in your region and in your continent but also the Africans that have been displaced around the globe because we need to be accepted”
So everything you do should be intended to not be completed in your lifetime. Have goals and dreams so big that you know you can’t finish it by the time you are called home. You have to have those types of goals and dreams because that’s the only way that we’re going to jump start and catch up with the people who have created the structures that keep us behind. We have to almost dream beyond the confines of the laws and move towards a completely ridiculously audacious goal of having Africa as the strongest continent on the planet. Through infrastructure, innovation, monetary advancement, science, art and culture. Like you see how we are, when we are at our best the whole world watches us and that’s the image we need to put out there.
